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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Painful, But the ACLU Should Defend Fred Phelps</title>
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	<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/</link>
	<description>making social justice visible</description>
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		<title>By: My Community Place</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>My Community Place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;ACLU sues over law on funeral protests.&lt;/strong&gt;

The ACLU has filed a suit challenging the new state law in Ohio which restricts political demonstrations at funerals.  SICK!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>ACLU sues over law on funeral protests.</strong></p>
<p>The ACLU has filed a suit challenging the new state law in Ohio which restricts political demonstrations at funerals.  SICK!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Downey</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Downey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-74</guid>
		<description>J.P. said &quot;It can be argued that this isn’t necessarily a free speech issue as much as it is a harassment issue. The Westboro members are selectively approaching graveside ceremonies as opposed to rallying in a park or on a street–in some cases against family members who might be opposed to the Iraqi War in the first place.&quot;

I have suggested the same approach on the Calumet Chapter of the Indiana ACLU.  The right to assemble and express an idea is protected.  However, other unlawfulness is not protected in the process.  While the group gathering does not meet the &quot;fight words&quot; exception to free speech, it does, as has been reported in some media outlets, rise to the level of slander.  In most states, some of what the Westboro group has been attributed as saying could be prosecuted, both civilly and criminally, for the tort of slander.  If the group demonstrates a pattern of showing up for these specific reasons, and does so in a targetted manner, there MIGHT be grounds for a civil harassment litigation and room for an TRO, but this would have to be done on a case-by-case basis and the litigation would have to go after the assets of the church and the protest organizers.  But the ACLU is defending the principles of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not the legitimacy of the content of the speech or protest offered by the Westboro fanatics.  In our form of government and society, we tolerate fanatical ideas, but not fanatical actions that cause harm or impede the rights of others.  There method of stopping these morons from being so offensive is not to preclude their sppech, but go after their unlawful behaviors and sue until they no longer have any assets to use for these purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.P. said &#8220;It can be argued that this isn’t necessarily a free speech issue as much as it is a harassment issue. The Westboro members are selectively approaching graveside ceremonies as opposed to rallying in a park or on a street–in some cases against family members who might be opposed to the Iraqi War in the first place.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have suggested the same approach on the Calumet Chapter of the Indiana ACLU.  The right to assemble and express an idea is protected.  However, other unlawfulness is not protected in the process.  While the group gathering does not meet the &#8220;fight words&#8221; exception to free speech, it does, as has been reported in some media outlets, rise to the level of slander.  In most states, some of what the Westboro group has been attributed as saying could be prosecuted, both civilly and criminally, for the tort of slander.  If the group demonstrates a pattern of showing up for these specific reasons, and does so in a targetted manner, there MIGHT be grounds for a civil harassment litigation and room for an TRO, but this would have to be done on a case-by-case basis and the litigation would have to go after the assets of the church and the protest organizers.  But the ACLU is defending the principles of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, not the legitimacy of the content of the speech or protest offered by the Westboro fanatics.  In our form of government and society, we tolerate fanatical ideas, but not fanatical actions that cause harm or impede the rights of others.  There method of stopping these morons from being so offensive is not to preclude their sppech, but go after their unlawful behaviors and sue until they no longer have any assets to use for these purposes.</p>
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		<title>By: t</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>J.P.: Your ignorance of the facts of these cases is glaring.
 
Carrie: I hope the ACLU still exists to defend the right of organizations to which you belong to be heard when they fall out of favor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.P.: Your ignorance of the facts of these cases is glaring.</p>
<p>Carrie: I hope the ACLU still exists to defend the right of organizations to which you belong to be heard when they fall out of favor.</p>
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		<title>By: CARRIE</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>CARRIE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The ACLU is a POS organization, that has in the past defending NAMBLA  an organization for child molestors and now they defend this hateful man in Fred Phelps...  Funds need to stop being sent to the ACLU period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ACLU is a POS organization, that has in the past defending NAMBLA  an organization for child molestors and now they defend this hateful man in Fred Phelps&#8230;  Funds need to stop being sent to the ACLU period.</p>
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		<title>By: J.P.</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>J.P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-61</guid>
		<description>It can be argued that this isn&#039;t necessarily a free speech issue as much as it is a harassment issue. The Westboro members are selectively approaching graveside ceremonies as opposed to rallying in a park or on a street--in some cases against family members who might be opposed to the Iraqi War in the first place.

It&#039;s essentially like those of us who oppose the Westboro group going after them in particular if they&#039;re on the street, following them with protest signs and screaming obscenities at them to show how much we can&#039;t stand them. In such a case we&#039;d be going beyond ordinary rights of free speech and assembly to blatant harassment and possibly even stalking.

Either way, we can agree that Phelps and his ilk are evil people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It can be argued that this isn&#8217;t necessarily a free speech issue as much as it is a harassment issue. The Westboro members are selectively approaching graveside ceremonies as opposed to rallying in a park or on a street&#8211;in some cases against family members who might be opposed to the Iraqi War in the first place.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s essentially like those of us who oppose the Westboro group going after them in particular if they&#8217;re on the street, following them with protest signs and screaming obscenities at them to show how much we can&#8217;t stand them. In such a case we&#8217;d be going beyond ordinary rights of free speech and assembly to blatant harassment and possibly even stalking.</p>
<p>Either way, we can agree that Phelps and his ilk are evil people.</p>
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		<title>By: Fixer</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Fixer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 18:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s one hell of a catch-22.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s what makes this country unique in the world and what we&#039;re sorely in danger if losing.  From my post:

&quot;The ACLU protects all of us, defending the Bill of Rights and the Constitution for anyone who&#039;s freedoms have been usurped or abrogated, even those who should be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s one hell of a catch-22.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s what makes this country unique in the world and what we&#8217;re sorely in danger if losing.  From my post:</p>
<p>&#8220;The ACLU protects all of us, defending the Bill of Rights and the Constitution for anyone who&#8217;s freedoms have been usurped or abrogated, even those who should be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Moderate with Brains</title>
		<link>http://newsfittopost.wordpress.com/2006/07/23/its-painful-but-the-aclu-should-defend-fred-phelps/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Moderate with Brains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 17:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your arguments make some sense, but you must realize that tons of gay people are giving money to the ACLU, including myself. It makes me sick to think that some of my money, and thousands of ACLU dollars, will be going to a man that would happily watch every gay person in the world die of AIDS. The only thing that would upset him about it is that he wouldn&#039;t be able to make it to all the funerals. It&#039;s one hell of a catch-22.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your arguments make some sense, but you must realize that tons of gay people are giving money to the ACLU, including myself. It makes me sick to think that some of my money, and thousands of ACLU dollars, will be going to a man that would happily watch every gay person in the world die of AIDS. The only thing that would upset him about it is that he wouldn&#8217;t be able to make it to all the funerals. It&#8217;s one hell of a catch-22.</p>
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